Haters gonna hate

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Haters gonna hate

Post by TheNinjaSlayer on Mon Jul 30, 2012 2:49 pm

I just wanted to start off with...

I also wanted to say I am neutral in the pro-gay and pro-traditional marriage argument, and the point to this rant isn't even about it, just using it as a prominent example.

I am SOOOOO annoyed with how everybody's response to disagreeing is hate. [/thesis statement, pay attention to that]
To name the most recent upset, Chick-Fil-A's promotion of traditional marriage. Yeah, they have their viewpoints, but it's not like they're saying they won't serve gays or something. And yeah, there's a chance they're haters, but what I really don't like is how all these pro-gay marriage guys are all like
"I FUCKING HATE PEOPLE WHO HATE PEOPLE BSAUHDHSJLFHLSHRVHDRHGV" They're entitled to their opinion, but for real, the best solution you can come up with is "LET'S ALL RALLY TOGETHER AND HATE THE HATERS"? I recall that happening a lot in middle school; I also recall it never worked.
Martin Luther King Jr. supported not hating the racist, and not attacking the racist, only disagreeing, and I think a lot of pro-gays forgot how effective that was, and sometimes even forget themselves.



In conclusion,

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Allindur, the Lightfoot on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:37 pm

I used to think like this. "They have different opinions, let them be", but then one badass psychology professor convinced me the oposite.

His argument was simple: some opinions are just too damaging to be acceptable. Example: If I start a movement against the arresting of murderers, because every man and woman should have the right to shoot another man or woman in the face and get away with it, you couldn't just say "hey, it's his opinion, let him be", because if I had enough people believing me, bad things would happen. If I started preaching that you should burn jews on the street, I would be arrested immediatly, because that's a dangerous opinion, one opinion that hurts people and should be disregarded. If, say, (and here I bring the omnipotent Godwin's Law to work) the nazi movement had been supressed immediatly as the cancerous, dangerous thing it is, we wouldn't have had that problem. You may argue that the prohibition of gay marriage does not hurt anyone, nor does its support, but you would be wrong. Gay couples lose a ton of vital legal support that only married couples have the right to, and not only that, as any support the anti-gay movement receives incites more hatred, more violence and more people being beaten and murdered on the street, and more parents spanking their children or throwing them away from their homes. More people are humiliated, ostracized, forsaken only for being who they are. More and more couples have to hide from their peers and more and more people have to go on living a painful lie. It's a vile movement, it's a vile idea, as it hurts people deeply. Many people. And as such it should be frowned upon.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Allindur, the Lightfoot on Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:41 pm

What I mean by it is: not everything is as simple as "haters gonna hate", sometimes one's opinion need to be cut off. Absolute freedom of speech is a dumb idea, and only viable in the utopic, childish minds of anarchists.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Silver on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:10 pm

Personally, I don't care much about marriage; I don't see myself getting married whether it is to a woman or a man (of course that may or may not change, after all I'm only sixteen). But for everyone that does care the matter of making everyone happy is this: See those two words in front of marriage used in the above rant? 'Traditional' and 'Gay'? Yeah. Those. How about we just throw a blanket over them and pretend they don't exist. There. Now all we're left with is marriage, which last time I checked is a choice. Sure in the past and in some other countries marriages were arranged, but here's the fact: We're not living in the past (chronologically at least; there are many people that are showing they've brought the past into the present*) and we are not other countries. This is the United States of America and marriage is a choice here, just like a BUNCH of other things. So if someone wants to get married why the hell stop them? If you're going to infringe on their choice then you shouldn't have one either.

And don't spout that: 'But we're doing this to preserve the sanctity of marriage' bullshit. That is a steaming load of crap. Utter crap. First off, marriage is most originally tied to religion. There is no true sacredness in religion; its the cause for a large deal of the world's problems. Past, present, and future. Secondly, even if we discount the religion aspect of marriage there's still no sanctity in it. If you cut out religion, there is government and social properties left. I'll focus on the latter as that's the core of the problem other than religion. I could rattle off a whole bunch of failed marriages and pull statistics here, but I won't. Frankly, I'll just let you go off of what you already know; that being the fact that the social aspect of marriage in America sucks. Period. End of point.

In conclusion just take off the labels and mind your own fucking business. Marriage is a choice and as such it should be respected as that, a choice. Unless that choice is physically harmful to your person and/or family (which I assure you there's not a logical situation where it is) then you don't need to be concerned. At all.

*The point I was making here is that people aren't learning everything. Prejudice comes in all forms. In the past (and regrettably today) the topic was rights for non-caucasians, now we're focusing on the GBLT community. It's the same situation just a different set of victims.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Zerifachias on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:50 pm

Well, it seems that the "marriage" part of this rant has already had some good answers. Let's answer the "disagreement -> hate" part.

A bit about the human psyche:

We were not meant to agree on every little thing in the world. That is one of the only problems of "free will." The human brain is not designed to argue, it never was. It was designed to win fights, because that was the only thing that mattered to them when fighting neanderthals over territory and basic life necessities like food and water. Victory is always at the forefront of a human's instinct, they aren't supposed to give way to "lesser" opinions. This is especially true for the male humans, but the same goes for women.

I know, I know. Some of you might be saying, "I don't ALWAYS want to win arguments!" Well, you're deceiving yourself. This feeling to always want to win is part of the id, a part of your psyche that seeks out pleasure in all forms. It's a highly unorganized thing, the id. It doesn't care what the truth is, or what reality is, or what other people think. It is your primitive instinct. At times, it can be relied on, others, it should be well-contained.

This is just what the human mind feels towards these things, so you can understand why a lot of people turn to hate. Their primal instinct when facing an enemy that won't back down is to slam their face into a wall or beat them with sticks.

Also, about Dr. King...it's not about "haters gonna hate," that is the WORST way you could describe that. Dr. King talked about peace with all of mankind. He didn't want us to ignore the haters, or just disagree with them, he wanted us to love them. To march peacefully, where no conflict rose because of a marcher, so that others could see that this was a true cause to get behind, that these people truly believed in a world of peace. If it were violent, many people would not have joined, and Dr. King may have been assassinated earlier than he was, or even arrested. You can't arrest someone because of a peaceful march, that would turn him into a martyr.

You can't talk about Dr. King as someone who didn't care about the people who hated him. You can't put it off as "haters gonna hate," because that isn't even remotely true. Terrible internet memes cannot describe any part of history, because it implies that you have an apathetic and ignorant view of the situation. There is nothing apathetic about Dr. King's movement, nor is there anything apathetic about the GBLT movement. And the last thing you want to be, concerning these things and the arguments behind them, is ignorant.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Masquerade on Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:59 pm

It's nice to have a professional around. =3= I just have to give you props, Zeri, because that was so well-put.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Silver on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:03 pm

^^^Fully agrees with the above statement.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Cerani on Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:10 pm

I'm pro-gay in so far as I support the idea. I believe everyone should have the choice of whether or not to be happy, and if being married to another guy or girl makes you happy, then by all means do so. Personally, I probably won't ever get married and I do not plan on having kids ever, however much that may change in the future, this is what I'm happy with. What most people seem to have trouble with is that I don't think like they do, and there begins the problem, at least on their end.

That's my way of winning, I suppose.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by TheNinjaSlayer on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:35 pm

DERAILMENT! EPIC. DERAILMENT. And no, you all derailed. Every last one.

Allindur: I never said, "they have opinions, let them be". I said hate doesn't fix anything. There's a very stark difference between the two.

Terra: As stated several times in the OP, it has nothing to do with marriage, nor do I care about what's going on with the marriage thing. After all, marriage isn't how I roll.

Zeri: So many things wrong with that, I won't even bother.

Cerani: ...Okay.

Finally, this was not meant as a Civilized Debate, it was meant as a way to blow off steam, and thank you for pissing me off further. Oh well.
I did put it in Rant section for a reason.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Masquerade on Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:38 pm

LMAO. I just realized it was in the Ranting section. Man, I've been too distracted lately. Ah well, not much I can do about it now. Just lay off guys and let this be. I'll take the blame for this one. Sorry about that.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Allindur, the Lightfoot on Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:12 pm

I'll admit...I did see it was in the Rant section.

Thing is: I really needed to stand my ground against something. I was pissed, and you gave me the perfect oportunity. Sorry? Embarassed

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by Cerani on Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:26 pm

Aahhhhh . . . . . oops? XD My apologies, at least I had my short paragraph there.

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Re: Haters gonna hate

Post by TheNinjaSlayer on Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:53 am

@everyone It's fine, sorry for the overreaction.


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Re: Haters gonna hate

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