Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

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Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Silver on Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:13 am

Before I begin what I am sure is going to be an extensively long rant, I will say that this also counts as a discussion. Feel free to express your opinions about the main topic, how I should calm down now, and/or how much of a fucking blowhard the idiot I am ranting about is.

Okay. First off I'll define 'gendering' for anyone unfamiliar with the term. Gendering put simply is the act of applying Gender Roles to a relationship (at least that's what I've been told and my belief). This is fairly common in nearly every relationship, be it homosexual or heterosexual. It's a form of stereotypical connotation that applies to one of the genders (Male or Female); for instance the color pink is 'gendered' female. For things like color this seems to be a trivial matter, but when you apply it to a relationship it can get pretty serious. And that would be the point of this rant.

You see, I met someone at the start of summer. Gay guy, really nice, and dare if I say so hot. He gave me his number and we started talking a lot. And I mean a LOT. We were pretty much inseparable and hated having to go to sleep cause it meant X amount of hours not getting to talk to the other. Only problem was that he was in a relationship with a domineering asshole and though he said he was unhappy, he stayed with him. Well, they broke up eventually and he admitted he really liked me; I thought I was finally going to have a real relationship. But no. First he was still on the rebound and didn't want a relationship right away. No big deal, I can respect that. But then some shit went down when my parents found out about him and that kept me from seeing him for awhile. During that time he picked up a new boy toy and did hid it from me until I interrupted him on a date and to get me to shut up told me he was with his man.

I stopped talking to him for about two weeks until he finally messaged me on Facebook and we sorta patched things up. I was not, however, flirting and being overly sweet with him as I had been prior; he obviously is not the kind of person I should be with and I accepted that fact. However, he has the nerve to flirt with me and tell me he wants to get in my pants even though he's taken. I told him to stop and after about eight times of telling him it was making things awkward and I wanted to change the topic he did. Tonight, however, he confronts me about why I've suddenly stopped being sweet. I told him it was because he's taken and I don't feel comfortable flirting with him and acting like a little home wrecker. He then asked me if his being in a relationship meant we could not be friends.

First off, what the hell? Last I checked friends don't flirt with one another (at least not fully or as thoroughly as they would with someone they're interested in), gay or straight. Secondly, if you want to be just friends then why flirt with me constantly? I told him that, and said that if he wanted to be friend I would treat him like a friend. Most all of you know I don't fawn over my friends constantly, or flirt, or tell them I love them every minute of the day. In fact, if I do compliment my friends or do the latter (I certainly don't flirt seriously) then it is a semi-rare moment where I feel the need to remind them of that fact or let them know because of something that's come up. That is not going to change no matter how interested in you I am; I save the proper relationship stuff for just that, a possible relationship.

His response to all of that was that he wants to be the person in the relationship who is paid for and taken care of. This tipped me off to just how fucking trashy and narrow-minded this person really is. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with someone wanting to be paid for and taken care of, but when you imply that that is all you want out of a relationship (to be the dependent/receiving person) and you make it clear you don't want to budge on that fact, that's where I have a problem. He then continued to say that I'm 'sweet and stuff, but I seem more on the feminine roll; like that's the stuff I want too.' When I read that I wanted to wring his fucking neck. Okay, I'm feminine, I get it; I'm definitely not the most masculine guy and I don't claim to be. But to hear that he thinks I want to be some trashy scumbag and not actually give a crap about the relationship itself is infuriating. Pisses me the fuck off because that tells me I'm the submissive member of the relationship and I have to take all the crap that the person who is 'dominating' me wants me to. I told him this: Okay. Stop. Just fucking stop now.

He continued typing but I wouldn't let him say anymore. First I told him that he has a point, I'm not the most masculine person. I then added: But that doesn't make a fucking difference in an actual relationship. The last message he got in was that even in a gay couple you can figure out who is paying for the other and who is dominating. He even stated that when he was with his ex and his current boyfriend that they were the dominant personality and he doesn't feel anything for me because I'm like him. At that point I'm pretty sure you can tell what happened next. That's right, I started raging.

I started by explaining that his point of view is obviously stemming from his need to be dominated. He wants to be the submissive person in the relationship because he's too fucking spineless to be assertive, and too scared to be in a healthy relationship (which involves sharing submission and domination). I continued to say that I am nothing like him because I actually want the aforementioned things, and that I want to be treated with love and respect, not like I'm some base douchebag who's only interested in having an easy ride. I finished by saying that obviously I could never be with him and that I must have been fucking insane to think I actually liked him because someone like him was not the kind of person I should associate with, much less fall in love with. I reiterated that I may not be the most masculine person, but that won't matter. Ever. Because when I find the person I truly love it won't matter; we won't be stuck under some rule book based on our personalities. It will just be love. He started typing again but I quickly added that I was done talking about it and went offline for him.

I unfriended him on Facebook and deleted him from my phone once I finally calmed down to the point that I was not shaking. But I am still fucking pissed off and likely will be until I finally fall asleep. Maybe not even then.

I personally do not get. I just don't. Why the fuck do we have to gender relationships? I mean... common courtesy is common courtesy, but acting like that fucktard I just spent 7 paragraphs ranting about is unacceptable. Completely and truly unacceptable. I'll admit when I first realized I was bi, I thought I was going to be a bottom or whatever, but I figured out that's not how it works in love. As I said above, to be in a healthy relationship (be it a homosexual, heterosexual, or pansexual relationship) roles should not matter. What should matter is you love that person and you want to share the aspects of being close to them in that way. I'm not saying switch up domination and submission everyday, but there should be instances where you're dominant and not submissive and vice versa.

It is absolutely ridiculous that we have such ignorant people who believe they have to fit roles and such. I know it's a byproduct of society, but seriously, why do we let it continue? It only results in a mess of ignorance and frustration. And though I don't have statistics, I bet this is one of the top reasons (if not the top reason) relationships don't work and we end up with worse stereotypes about the genders themselves. Which in itself is ludicrous and entirely objectionable. The only thing I regret is that I did not know how strongly I felt about this till tonight.

Seriously people.

Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Gah.

I swear if this continues I'm going to start busting heads. It's not cool and I won't stand for it. And neither should any of you.

End: Rant.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Allindur, the Lightfoot on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:40 am

I don't have anything long to add to that, you pretty much said all that needed to be said in the homossexual side of the story. I will add, however, that I believe this idea of roles messes up each and every relationship where it happens, be it homossexual OR heterossexual. Yes, gendering, as put by Terra, fucks up a heterossexual relationship in the long run.

I'm an observer by nature, I watch, I listen, I smell, and I take mental notes of each and everything I perceive and reflect upon them later. That's an habbit I developed over the years and that has proven amazingly productive. Point is: I've seen relationships, I've watched it. I'm not going to exagerate and say they crumble solely because of this role thing, that would be moronic, but I do see it's a big part of it. "The woman is paid for by the man" "The man rules the relationship, and the woman needs to go around him" "As soon as a woman disagrees with you, give up, you can't argue with a woman". Bullshit. I've been with my girlfriend for almost three years now, and it wouldn't have lasted even one if we fit in that standard.

An example: I have a friend whose boyfriend pays everything for. And I mean EVERYTHING. Her father literally gives her 200 bucks per week to spend on whatever she wants. And how much does she spend going out? Zero. That makes no sense. I mean, I like paying for stuff when my girlfriend is out of money. I like being polite, but she makes twice as much as I do, I'm just not going to pay for everything. In fact, it's not uncommon for her to pay for me. And what's the reaction when people hear about that? Well, I guess you already know that.

There's a ton of other examples I could give, but that would just be wasting time. I mean, I like dominating, I like being the person in charge. And I like doing some of the things labeled as man-stuff. I like opening the door, pulling the chair, tending for her. But I also love being feminine when I want. Doing things labeled as girl-stuff. I love taking a day to go look at clothes, I like being payed for if I have no cash, I enjoy cooking and cleaning and sometimes being bossed at too. Why not? But apparently I can't do any of that because I have a penis. Fan-fucking-tastic.

What I mean is: even in relationships between a man and a woman, being locked in your gender roles can be seriously damaging, specially when these roles involve very serious things, like money, sex and dominance. A mature relationship has none of that. A mature relationship (something so damn rare) is one where each part acknowledges the other part's personal preferences and feelings, and all can be free, without hurting each other or having unreal expectations based on fallacious precepts. I'm by no way saying my relationship is perfect or whatsoever, we have our share of problems, but I guess if I, someone so needing of freedom and personal space that I try to keep multiple groups of friends (a few online) because I just grow sick of people over time, for no special reason, am still enjoying it after all this time, we must be doing SOMETHING right. And I have a hint the sharing of the roles is a big part of it.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by TheNinjaSlayer on Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:10 am

Yeah...I notice people pretty quickly stereotype me as sub o.o
I don't really care, personally, because I'm that kinda person, but it does get old not getting to dom Razz
And yeah, I can see this being the same as racism against African Americans. Yes, we got rid of it, but never completely. There's always that residue that's left behind which wracks the country. Traditional view of women, where the women are sub and men are dom aren't any different.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Zerifachias on Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:13 am

Sliv, I'm gonna be 100% honest with you here. I'll talk about the whole marriage/staying with someone for the rest of your life thing first, then I'll get into the psychology. You can skip the first part if you only want to see the psychology, or you can skip the psychology if you only want to see my thoughts on relationships and marriage.

You are much too young to worry about relationships. Don't get me wrong, you're allowed to look for someone you want to be with, it's just that the chances of finding someone in your age group who you will fit with for life are very, very low. You have matured greatly in the time that I've known you, but you are still young.

That being said, I can tell you that you did the right thing here, and it is a very good thing that you caught him when you did, because then things might have gone the wrong way for you. As soon as you found him out, both his "boy toy" and his true personality, you burned that bridge to the ground. That was one of the very few choices you had that would effectively get you out of that situation.

Now, all you really need to do, is calm yourself down before focusing on what happened between the two of you. I encourage you to really give this some thought. Think about what you said, what he did and said, and really reflect on your emotions. When you stop being angry, that's when the true feelings come out.

Now, the psychology...I think I'll start with gender role profiling. This is actually a very useful technique for psychologists when it comes to certain things. It also gives profilers a template to use when conducting studies with drugs and cool tricks of the mind. But it isn't supposed to be used for everything. I know a girl that hates the color pink, and a guy who's favorite color is pink. The same goes for sexual preference. Everyone is different.

Now, from what you told me about this guy here, he is very...parasitic. He relies on others to provide for him, and he takes what he wants, but it's hardly noticed. He appears to be in a submissive position, but he is actually kind of like a shadow-king. Kind of...like a reverse control-freak, someone who wants to be submissive all the time, and so force the other to be dominant. The "feminine" role, if you will, combined with an unhealthy preference for control.

Yes, he is narrow-minded and a control freak, but seriously, it all boils down to immaturity and bad parenting.

That's my analysis. It isn't much, but I didn't have a lot to go off of. I don't know this person personally, so I'm just using what you've said.

...

And I think the very top cause of bad/failed relationships is lack of communication. Assumptions can be classified in that category too.

That'll be all for me, I think. Try not to think about it too much right now. First, make sure you've calmed yourself down an adequate amount, and then reflect on what happened. Learn from mistakes that you might have made. If you think you didn't make any mistakes, learn from your ex-friend's mistakes. See if you can't spot the bad eggs another few miles away or so.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Cerani on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:24 am

I really have nothing to add after that. ^.^; But yay, you're my friend so I'm happy this revelation has come to you, and that this guy's levels of uncool can only continue to skyrocket.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by crazE on Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:38 am

I'm gonna have to agree with Zeri. The odds of you finding the person you truly wanna be with is lol at this age. Not only that, relationships at a young age (no matter how mature you are up there in your head) cause psychological and social damage. It's great you're exploring, looking for what qualities you'd like in people, but that's what the friendzone is for. Keep people at a distance before actually digging deeper if you become interested.

The reason why it's so bad to be dating people at a young age? Because everyone's still trying to find who they truly are through their teenage years, and even a little into their early 20's. Odds are the person you'd be dating now will not be the same person in a few years, because they haven't fully matured into their true selves. For the sake of yourself, I advise you don't jump straight into a relationship (especially due to looks**), but build up a friendship with them first. People who are "just friends" with someone will reveal their true selves much easier than to a love interest. You'll really be able to see who they are from this hidden standpoint.

**On this topic, I'm not saying it's bad to base off looks. I mean, how are you supposed to catch the attention of people? Not everyone has "the sight" where they can see people's personalities through their actions and such, so looking your best is honestly recommended. Just don't base off it too much, odds are the really good-looking people are exactly like who you met.

As for gender profiling, agreed with everything, lmao. To answer the question, the reason why people are so ignorant and such to it and continue to do it is because we're /monkeys/. I'll share a short story with you:
Spoiler:


Start with a cage containing five monkeys.
Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water.
After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it.
Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him.
After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.
Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked.
Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.
After replacing all the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana. Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been done round here.
And that, my friends, is how company policies are made.

In short, this may not be directed to this discussion, but it's the same result. We are still as monkeys. Some big guy who everyone idolizes sprays everyone with water when someone tries to change things up, and everyone goes insane trying to prevent it. We've been taught all our lives that certain roles go to certain sides of the relationship, and if they're mixed up, then they are frowned upon by everyone else. The only reason no one realizes it is because they don't know better, no one's been given the realization to them and has no real reason to try and find it. That, or they simply don't wanna change. Monkeys.

Terra, if the role you are in, the relationship you are in, the position you are in makes you happy and does not physically/psychologically harm others around you, then just keep where you are. Gender profiling was the 50's.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Silver on Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:06 am

@Alli: Aye, I totally know its there with heterosexual relationships as well. I see it with my friends (both my peers and older) all the time and that ends up being one of their main problems making things work. The only reason I didn't go into full detail about the heterosexual side of it was because a lot of my rant stemmed from the idiot.

@Ninja: And it sucks that we, as a people, are learning nothing from history. We see this stuff all of the time, but no one does anything about it. Even though it is wrong, we still see it because there is no unified effort to truly put down the problems of society. Sure there were groups to change things, but as you said we still have residue because it was not a total collective.

@Zeri: I was honestly waiting for your response, I really wanted to see what you had to say. I do agree with what you have to say about my being too young. I know I'm definitely too young to be looking for a 'life partner', but that was not entirely what I was looking for with this loser. As I said before I thought it was going to be an actual relationship. I've never had a relationship where I was physically able to be around the person for very long if at all; which is why I don't even consider them relationships fully, just really close friendships. So yeah, I was excited for this. But now I'm even more happy I broke things off now because had it gone any farther it would have ruined me emotionally.

I know you don't have much to go off of, but I'm fairly certain there was nothing else for you to really go off of from a logical standpoint. I mean, there are some details that might be of use (his parents are separated is one), but other than that what I listed is pretty much it. From another standpoint a friend of mine in real life was also talking with me over Facebook when it was going on and he explained it from an astrological standpoint. Apparently the loser is an Aries and that has something to do with all of this. I did not fully understand it all; I've looked at astrology before but not as thoroughly as he did. But whatever it is that caused his narrow-mindedness, I hope he takes a reality check before he is out on his own.

@Cerani: I've already covered a big deal of my thoughts with you over Facebook. But I will say I just wish I figured it all out earlier.

@crazE: Again, as I said with Zeri, I wasn't looking for a soul mate or anything. I know the chances of finding 'the one' at my age are ridiculously small. I have to admit I try to avoid the friend zone now, mostly because I actually want a relationship and once someone goes there it doesn't change. However I will agree that doing so does help you see the true qualities of a person. On the topic of looks, well, I wasn't looking at him solely for that. It was a perk for before I had introduced myself and we started talking, but I did not start liking him because of his looks.

The story made me laugh just a bit, but I get it.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Luminous on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:35 pm

I said that I would take the time to write a proper response to this over MSN, so here I am. I can't guarantee that any of my advice will be as good as other people's, but you're a good internet friend of mine so I thought I'd say something anyway.

I forget who mentioned this but I agree about the whole age thing. Yes you're very mature for your age but others who're in your classes and such don't tend to be. Look at what today's generation of teenagers consists of. Sadly most of them are out for only two things: popularity and sometimes a bit of sexual interaction, even if they're not of the legal age yet. The legal age is 16 over here but really two years barely makes any difference. People still do things. I'm glad that you broke the mould Silv. You're pleasant and really perceptive. =)

And the whole gendering thing is stupid. I'm the less 'dominant' one in my relationship but that's only because of mine and my boyfriend's natures. He also has more money than me so yes he pays for most things, but I make sure to pay for things when I can too. And I only say that he's more dominant because he's much better at speaking to people than I am at times. Plus he initiates our decisions a bit more than I do. =)
The gender role situation is indeed outdated. But some factors have prohibited any progress in the right direction, i.e opinions that are spread through forms of social media. At least we're further ahead than we were in the 50's.

For your sake, wait until people are more mature Silv. I just don't want you to get emotionally hurt my immature dickwads.

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Re: Gendering? What. The. Fucking. Hell?

Post by Silver on Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:55 pm

Thank you, Shad~

I thought I'd give you all an update, as things have progressed further since I posted the rant. Said dickwad had been texting me consistently and last night started Facebook messaging the same things as well. I finally decided it was time to just spell it out for him as he was not taking a hint, which led to long drawn out hysterics on his end. I sat through quite a bit of bullshit merely repeating myself before I had enough. I told him to save it. That the only reason he wants to keep me around is cause I made him feel good, when honestly he should be getting that from his boyfriend. But because he couldn't get that from him he was looking for something sweet elsewhere. I made a somewhat corny (couldn't help myself) comment about my bakery being closed, and that I was done. Go talk to your boyfriend. And then I blocked him on Facebook. He sent me a text later saying he's not a monster like I think he is but that he'll leave me alone now.

I swear though, this must be what it feels like to make friends with a stalker.

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